TASSY P2P FORUMS

Well, after comments like these, I guess it's time for me to make clear my position, rather than have Porkster try to tell me what my position is.

I actually believe that Shareaza is a superior P2P client to DC in it's various incarnations. However, I also believe that there are a number of reasons why Shareaza is being held back:

1. Porkster. He has become the spokesman for this client, and his methods are not designed to bring people into the fold. His current ridiculous comments here:

http://tassyp2p.no-ip.com/p2p/viewtopic.php?t=339

are the sort of things that keep people away.

2. The current settings advocated make all clients hubs. This is not how it's supposed to work. I believe this is one of the things causing problems.

3. Lack of community feeling. Because of the lack of a chat room type function, Shareaza feels like a sterile landscape littered with interesting files, but no people. The thing I really like about DC is the chat. You have a feeling of community. It might not be technically the best P2P client, but it's the most friendly.

There, I've had my say. I hope my position is now clear. If anyone feels I have said anything unfair about Shareaza or DC, then please say so. But remember: at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. No babies will die over this.

Yes i agree, i have also said to pork about the need for him to stop being a salesman with the shareaza group, if people want to join they will.. no one likes being preached to.

I think pork has calmed down as of late with this.

The chat room is a main reason for me.

johnd wrote:I actually believe that Shareaza is a superior P2P client to DC in it's various incarnations. However, I also believe that there are a number of reasons why Shareaza is being held back:

So because I pushed forward first(with blackhawk, anach and others) to improve OUR situation in DC, that I own Shareaza as a whole share idea? Now that is so stupid and it's even more stupidity to stay in an old p2p model to prove your point.

johnd wrote:1. Porkster. He has become the spokesman for this client, and his methods are not designed to bring people into the fold.

I'm not into becoming popular. I expect people to follow what is the best. I also respect people on an equal level when they are open.

johnd wrote:2. The current settings advocated make all clients hubs. This is not how it's supposed to work. I believe this is one of the things causing problems.

Yet again, you are stating what I disagree with and you haven't given me any reason to change my understanding of how gnutella2 works, I don't expect you too either.

John, there is nothing stopping you running your own DCache and Setup Layout suggestions!!! Come on, then we would have the perfectly working case model.. Maybe after that you might have the honour to apologise (I wonder if your that much of a person too?).

johnd wrote:3. Lack of community feeling. Because of the lack of a chat room type function, Shareaza feels like a sterile landscape littered with interesting files, but no people.

Well at the start we planned to use DC as the chat base but PhilC got protective of losing people over to Shareaza and demanded that people had to share on DC as well. So we started a IRC chat room.

johnd wrote:There, I've had my say. I hope my position is now clear. If anyone feels I have said anything unfair about Shareaza or DC, then please say so. But remember: at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. No babies will die over this.

If you stand by your comments then you will study where you might have gone wrong!

FACT : Many people have been having problems accessing Anach's web page due to THE Netspace Web Proxy Problem. Funny seeing a Nero Burning Online Script, or a Web Cam at Anach’s directly pointed IP.

FACT : On tests done of SERVER variables captured after a Netspace user request to a world web location, the variables were reported as unconventional and in error from Netspace Web Proxy.

FACT : Only a few months ago we had other Web Proxy problems in that all ip’s resolved back to one 203.20.58.1. That was another version of the web proxy destroying the tunnelled values.

FACT : Anyone can run a Shareaza base group and if it uses the same rules then all will see each other. So nothing stopping you JohnD running one!

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Anach wrote:Yes i agree, i have also said to pork about the need for him to stop being a salesman with the shareaza group, if people want to join they will.. no one likes being preached to.

Honestly, do you think Phill C was going to tell people about Shareaza? He went GREEN when it started, even though he was telling everyone over months that he was always looking for a better level. He just never seemed to get one for obvious reasons.

I had to promote it, as there wasn't anyone else too.

It's not my group, I only placed a web page up and told people about it. It's very easy for others to run side line suggested setup groups.

btw, the conclusion to settings were derived from, you, jimbo, blackhawk, squidley, rolf and me. Jimbo making the pre-complied installer, and I who rewrote the DCache to auto add IP's.

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No i dont think phil has to tell people, but letting people know is different than preaching endlessly.

Porkster wrote:
I'm not into becoming popular. I expect people to follow what is the best. I also respect people on an equal level when they are open.

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Porkster, you seem to go out of your way to alienate people. You end up not just being unpopular, but actively disliked. Try to understand. Your attitude is hurting any chance of Shareaza being considered a viable alternative. At the moment it is just an interesting toy that a few people play with.

Perhaps I would find you a nice enough person if we sat down, had a few beers, and watched the cricket. Perhaps it's just that you don't come across well in text communication. I hope that is the case.

"The best" does not necessarily mean the best technically. It means the best at getting the job done. Beta was better technically, but VHS won out because it suited the overall job better. Plus Sony did not make itself particularly popular in license negotiations.
It is more than just technical superiority. I'm sorry you can't see that.

johnd wrote:Porkster, you seem to go out of your way to alienate people. You end up not just being unpopular, but actively disliked. Try to understand. Your attitude is hurting any chance of Shareaza being considered a viable alternative. At the moment it is just an interesting toy that a few people play with.

I'm not concerned making friendships with people that are hollow. I keep friends that are equals and happy to learn and improve from each other. I don't need to attract people off DC as anyone that stays on that p2p group is surely lacking something in their lives.

I'm on solid rock so to speak on these issues and it's strength is facts and reality. On the other hand, (in my opinion, obviously) you have gone out on a limb to discredit me and others but this has placed you in sight with comments that are very weak and unstable.

Currently I know of two World locations using our shareaza model. One in India where a university students are using to share with each other on their school campus. Also in the USA, a guy has group going for Cable internet users since they were getting letters from RIAA with their older SERVER based p2p. Both groups are working A1. The USA group is 20 users upwards, the Indian group is big but I don't know the numbers. Conclusion, the work Jimbo, Blackhawk, myself and others at the start has BEEN a SUCCESS.

The future, well I'm hoping that G2 protocols change to suit auto DCaching, which will allow me to program the DCache to better suit other client ports. A central chat room will vastly improve browsing sharing and also we can then suggest that being a HUB is not of any use.

With current modes we have no need of change as all is perfectly working. The only effort needed is when ISP's/Netspace have corrupt networking. This is why I have been quiet about the share group.

I also have to check, tassyp2p.tripod.com becuase the hits were getting really high.

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Porkster wrote:[
Currently I know of two World locations using our shareaza model. One in India where a university students are using to share with each other on their school campus. Also in the USA, a guy has group going for Cable internet users since they were getting letters from RIAA with their older SERVER based p2p. Both groups are working A1. The USA group is 20 users upwards, the Indian group is big but I don't know the numbers. Conclusion, the work Jimbo, Blackhawk, myself and others at the start has BEEN a SUCCESS.

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Porkster, statements like this, without proof, are why you are a laughing stock.

johnd wrote:Porkster, statements like this, without proof, are why you are a laughing stock.

It doesn't worry me by being laughed from ex-playstation upgraders who think they know everything about computing because they can put together Lego styled pc. I'm a computer hobbyist and like to be at the forefront of technology, not lured by dude clubs. Other words I'm not after appraisal, I just enjoy being with other intelligent people.

People that are in our IRC channel are testimonials to the other World groups, so you will have to accept it or don’t let it concern you.

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Porkster, your IRC channel only has 3 or 4 people in it. It's hardly a hive of international communication.

BTW, your elitism is showing...

i tried shareaza, after shitloads of setup probems it finally worked, sat in there for a few weeks, tranfured maybe 5 files total, both ways. then it shat itself so i gave up.

DC is ok, but to get its full effect you have to queue up 50 files, search manually for all the alternatives (usually renamed which makes it even harder) then hope to get a slot, once you have 4 or so slots it goes at a resonable speed. but then when i want to play a game i have to limit the bandwidth so i dont loss my slot and i feel bad for taking all the slots.


anyway, i still think a new client is needed, but DC will have to be closed beforeanything else will take off

Kegsta wrote:i tried shareaza, after shitloads of setup probems it finally worked, sat in there for a few weeks, tranfured maybe 5 files total, both ways. then it shat itself so i gave up.

Yep, the Shareaza group is a hack on what Shareaza normal is applied to so for some the required settings might be off beat.

The problems the shareaza group has has is Netspace's Web Proxy. I've done what I can to get around the corrupt actions the Web Proxy is producing. I should point out they have been on going problems, too.

Kegsta wrote:DC is ok, but to get its full effect you have to queue up 50 files, search manually for all the alternatives (usually renamed which makes it even harder) then hope to get a slot, once you have 4 or so slots it goes at a resonable speed. but then when i want to play a game i have to limit the bandwidth so i dont loss my slot and i feel bad for taking all the slots.

I agree with your assumption.

Kegsta wrote:anyway, i still think a new client is needed, but DC will have to be closed beforeanything else will take off

The only thing holding back Shareaza is a chat room and friends list. By having a chat room built into the client then people wouldn't need most of the settings we are preaching. You could then just be in any mode, hub or non.

Let me say, you will never get around firewalling issues though. If someone doesn't setup firewalling correct then no p2p client will operate correctly.

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johnd wrote:Porkster, your IRC channel only has 3 or 4 people in it. It's hardly a hive of international communication.

BTW, your elitism is showing...

I don't know if you realized, but our Irc channel is #TassieP2P, so why would World users want to stay in the channel.. Also people that have used Shareaza in Tassy have also used dc as a chat area so they had no reason to use the IRC channel. I personal wont use dc as it's a sitting DUCK to be BUSTED. The main reason why I wont trial other p2p's as none are decentralised like Gnutella.


If elite = being correct, then I will agree with you. Do I look down at people, no.

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Porkster wrote:Well at the start we planned to use DC as the chat base but PhilC got protective of losing people over to Shareaza and demanded that people had to share on DC as well. So we started a IRC chat room.

Thanks for telling me how I think, ass.

The reason why I said people have to share in both is that the DC hub is NOT a chat server. You want a chat server porkster, start your own fucking IRC server. Also, if everyone shares everyones equal - and I dont have a situation where someone is sharing on sharaza, sharing nothing on DC and downloading on DC.

This makes perfect sence to me I dont understand whats so hard porkster.

Porkster wrote:

Anach wrote:Yes i agree, i have also said to pork about the need for him to stop being a salesman with the shareaza group, if people want to join they will.. no one likes being preached to.

Honestly, do you think Phill C was going to tell people about Shareaza? He went GREEN when it started, even though he was telling everyone over months that he was always looking for a better level. He just never seemed to get one for obvious reasons.

I had to promote it, as there wasn't anyone else too.

It's not my group, I only placed a web page up and told people about it. It's very easy for others to run side line suggested setup groups.

btw, the conclusion to settings were derived from, you, jimbo, blackhawk, squidley, rolf and me. Jimbo making the pre-complied installer, and I who rewrote the DCache to auto add IP's.

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Nup wrong again wise one. I have used shareaza before and its a pile of shit. I did try emule, but it didnt work out and I couldnt work out why searching wasnt working so its on the backburner right now. Our community on the hub as a whole is happy with DC so I dont see why I should spend my time looking into it untill theres enough demand.

My other problem is how you promoted it, which was basically all blatant lies.

Phil wrote:This makes perfect sence to me I dont understand whats so hard porkster.

The point exactly. If you were supportive of others to trial different p2p models then you would have been most happy to help any way possible. Your stance was,"yes lets get a new client," then you went quiet as soon as one was found.

I understand rules, and you had rules that people had to share over a amount, but this doesn't avoid the case that you shunned change or you would have over looked the rule. Research to further the greater group...

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Phil wrote:Nup wrong again wise one. I have used shareaza before and its a pile of shit. I did try emule, but it didnt work out and I couldnt work out why searching wasnt working so its on the backburner right now. Our community on the hub as a whole is happy with DC so I dont see why I should spend my time looking into it untill theres enough demand.

My other problem is how you promoted it, which was basically all blatant lies.

Hmm, maybe then you shouldn't be running any server if you couldn't get emule going, therefore your rating of Shareaza is obviously incorrect too.

I wont use a server based network as it's too risky, but most know that emule requires two ports forwarded on a router for it to work. Then there are other minor issues that force local sharing.

Obviously you didn't put much time into your experiments as many interstate emule groups are working fine.

People like you are destroying Netspace in that your are keeping users behind, including in the same vein has the IT people in Tassy Netspace that aren't in the know to have our networks in the forefront of technology and correct workings.

Many companies think Tasmania is just 10 years behind, and with people like you I have to agree.

I have taking this as a non personal issues and moved on and done the efforts to get shareaza group going. I only mention DC when it's in reference to HISTORY. I don't need to attack you or your peer pressured group. So don't come out attacking others.

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Hmm, maybe then you shouldn't be running any server if you couldn't get emule going, therefore your rating of Shareaza is obviously incorrect too.

I wont use a server based network as it's too risky, but most know that emule requires two ports forwarded on a router for it to work. Then there are other minor issues that force local sharing.

Dont assume things. I dont need to forward ANY PORTS because I am running my ADSL modem in bridged mode. Other minor issues? please explain.

Hmm, maybe then you shouldn't be running any server if you couldn't get emule going, therefore your rating of Shareaza is obviously incorrect too.

This was the other problem. The server software that is available for a emule server (for windows anyway) is a DOS program. It has virtually no options to configure it, no front end, nothing. The program also detects the machines internal IP by default and this cannot be changed to the proper IP address.

I found a front end program called "Donkey control" after discussions with one of the VIC hub admins. They actually run their server on linux and the linux server is far better than the windows one. All Donkey control does is gives a front end and crashes a bit. I think its still in beta. This then made me think about reliability - the DC hub has had uptimes of over 1000 hours - whats the point of changing if its down half the time and I am away from the server unable to fix it. And dont mention the fact that shitaza doesnt have server, most people cant connect to the network anyway.

Obviously you didn't put much time into your experiments as many interstate emule groups are working fine.

I spent 2 weeks on it but I couldnt work out why the search was failing. Even with the firewall disabled it just wouldnt work. The other thing that made me have my doubts was the lack of a contacts list (you had to add each user manually), The fact that it listed all the users shared files in one big list - so that everyone would have to zip everything up the same to get multisourcing to work, and that people would have to have 2 copies of the stuff they use regularly. All this made me have my doubts.

If someone can produce a proper server for it for windows, I will look into it again. I'm not interested in running a DOS server thats totally unreliable.

People like you are destroying Netspace in that your are keeping users behind, including in the same vein has the IT people in Tassy Netspace that aren't in the know to have our networks in the forefront of technology and correct workings.

People like me? I'm destroying netspace? I was the person who took the initiative right at the start to set up a tassie P2P service. I have been running the DC hub for almost a year at my own cost. Its people like you who are destorying P2P in this state, by pushing your shitty alternative thats been refused by a majority.What you dont seem to get is that no one benefits by having two seperate communities.

I'm having no trouble with the Netspace Tassie network btw.

Many companies think Tasmania is just 10 years behind, and with people like you I have to agree.

Good thing I dont give a shit about your opinion then eh?

So don't come out attacking others.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Phil wrote:Pot. Kettle. Black.

Ok, lets keep it civil.

In about three months you wont have to put up with me trying to make Netspace the best DSL deal, anymore as I'll be going Unlimited.

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You're the one flamebaiting, and you tell Phil to keep it civil?

Yes, please go unlimited, I'm sure your new ISP will be able to fix those proxy problems for you.

Chage wrote:You're the one flamebaiting, and you tell Phil to keep it civil?

Yes, please go unlimited, I'm sure your new ISP will be able to fix those proxy problems for you.

1) this thread is obsolete, why? as unlimited dsl has killed the need for local p2p. You would be stupid to stay with Netsapce(gamers are better on telstra, p2p's are better on comindico).

2) If you read any of my posts, they always rely on fact. It's hard to beat someone when they state facts.

3) I don't loose any sleep when others stick to stupidity. The only problem that affects me is their clout to keep good things down, alas Netspace. Netspace is now one of the worse DSL plans in Tassie.

4) The shareaza experiment is already a success, even though locally it didn't win by numbers. Pitty now that allocation limits are a thing of the past. I don't want to hear comments either that unlimited deals will revert. Unlimited has killed local p2p. local P2P can only be a side line now for maybe faster downloads of the same world file requests. DC isn't world files able.

5) I wasn't personally attacking phil, I just categoised him (in my own opinion) as a person that isn't willing to promote innovations.

6) bye, in three months... when my contract runs out.

7) I get ISO's faster by downloading them myself.

The Shareaza group was a bonus and it was good to share with other people of high IQ's. I think it's time to stop promoting it, even though I will continue to share in it, as a sideline.

With DC, it's a long wait for files and like I said, one step away from Tassie's new Police Piracy Task Force. Maybe you guys will be lucky enough to escape a bust, but there are possibilities you will! Lucky I'm not a dobber.

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2) If you read any of my posts, they always rely on fact. It's hard to beat someone when they state facts.

Please provide evidence that the original author of traceroute believes that it would have been better named traceroot. Provide (a)the email you sent to him, (b) his reply (full content, including all headers).

HEH !

its the same arguments over and over.

keep going though, I'm lovin it.

Porkster wrote: 2) If you read any of my posts, they always rely on fact. It's hard to beat someone when they state facts.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

Oh god the pain, my spleen, that is THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER READ.

Porkster wrote:With DC, it's a long wait for files and like I said, one step away from Tassie's new Police Piracy Task Force. Maybe you guys will be lucky enough to escape a bust, but there are possibilities you will! Lucky I'm not a dobber.

Or if you're worried about getting busted how about you go and BUY the software/movies/music/games. Weird concept I know but you see having the boxes to the things on the shelf and recipts in the wallet sorta says you own that item. Funny how these days I have the CDs for the music i listen to along the box to photoshop elements and ms office on my shelf right next to my dvd collection.

or to quote Phil
pot, kettle, black

Net_Fish wrote:Or if you're worried about getting busted how about you go and BUY the software/movies/music/games. Weird concept I know but you see having the boxes to the things on the shelf and recipts in the wallet sorta says you own that item. Funny how these days I have the CDs for the music i listen to along the box to photoshop elements and ms office on my shelf right next to my dvd collection.

So your 200gigs of DVD rips was just backups of your origianl dvd's?

IO hope you realize that if you allowed anyone to download those items then more or less you gave the ownership away!!!

Wot i love are some good solid facts, that no one knows, but sound good in an argument.

keep going. !

Porkster wrote:So your 200gigs of DVD rips was just backups of your origianl dvd's?

IO hope you realize that if you allowed anyone to download those items then more or less you gave the ownership away!!!

Ironicly I deleted it, threw out the cds, and sold the hardware, you may have even noticed the for sale notice in the trade forum a while back. I actually sold of something like 3 systems that i had no use for that month and used some of the cash to buy the four applications i used that didn't already come with the computer and buy the 10 or so cds of music I actually listen to. The OS came with my computer and the license says that its media must stay with the computer if i sell it.

I don't want to know what would have happend if i was caught so i just threw it all away. Not like i watched much of it or used much of it anyway. really it was just wasting space. A collect for the sake of collecting thing that got tired.

Net_Fish wrote:

Porkster wrote:So your 200gigs of DVD rips was just backups of your origianl dvd's?

IO hope you realize that if you allowed anyone to download those items then more or less you gave the ownership away!!!

Ironicly I deleted it, threw out the cds, and sold the hardware, you may have even noticed the for sale notice in the trade forum a while back. I actually sold of something like 3 systems that i had no use for that month and used some of the cash to buy the four applications i used that didn't already come with the computer and buy the 10 or so cds of music I actually listen to. The OS came with my computer and the license says that its media must stay with the computer if i sell it.

I don't want to know what would have happend if i was caught so i just threw it all away. Not like i watched much of it or used much of it anyway. really it was just wasting space. A collect for the sake of collecting thing that got tired.

Well Telstra DSL is ready for you then.. if you don't need P2P and you use all original.

Yeah, I remember your sale lists on here, like the sale of the mp3 player because you wanted a Apple one. I wonder is mp3 are illegal in general? even if you own the originals... lol

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Porkster wrote:Well Telstra DSL is ready for you then.. if you don't need P2P and you use all original.

Yeah, I remember your sale lists on here, like the sale of the mp3 player because you wanted a Apple one. I wonder is mp3 are illegal in general? even if you own the originals... lol

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This may come as a suprise to you but there is more than just dc/emule/shareblah that is counted as free traffic. I still use the tree traffic between users and to keypoint to get data. things like the freebsd source repository is avalible as free data. and that was a 1.8gb inital download and is about 5meg of content per night.

Also I wouldn't go getting all mister high and mighty questioning the legitamacy of the content i OWN. I can't say what you do and do not own but I'm going to take a stab that it's a lot less than me.

Oh yeah and I use mpeg layer 4 'AAC' for my music these days it's quality shits on mp3s

In reality for my data usage these days and over the last 12 months i could easily use a telstra 3gb plan but i do not. why? because of costs. a netspace home 256 plus costs 70/mo and gives me access to 8gb of data. of course i could drop to the next plan down and save myself 10 bucks but i'm already saving 30 on the previous costs of the 512k connection we used to have.

So I'm switching from an MD to a iPod. yeah, good. an MD has a copy of the content on it, so does an iPod one keeps it in ATRAC3 format the other keeps it in MP3/AAC format. The iPod also doubles as a portable firewire/usb1/usb2 hard disk, calander viewing app and has address book features. Also Sony does not make any OSX software for the minidisk while the iPod intergrates into iTunes and OSX very well this just makes my life easier.

If your trying to protect yourself from the cops by hiding behind applications that do not have a central server application this doesn't mean that the data is magicly un-traceable for someone to download from you they still have to know you're real ip. Here's a bit of news, security through obscurity never works.

The media formats be it mp2 mp3 wav aac aiff or what ever are not illegal it's the content within them that makes the files illegal.

/me enters this thread with some trepidation

Both Porkster and Net_Fish have valid points about copyright. There is no such thing in Australia as "fair use".

Don't make me research and post linkage to the Copyright Act 1968, the Digital Millenium Copyright Amendment 1986 and the Copyright
Amendment (Digital Agenda) Act 2000. (or whatever the dates were). Please.

For some basic overview. I recommend this publication.