P2P in Tasmania..the future?

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:57 pm

Hi all,

Our P2P network at the moment is going extremely well. Averaging round 50 users, the hub has 2 1/2 tb's of data. I want to thank everyone for participating in the Hub, I'm sure we have all got something beneficial out of it.

So whats this post about? What I'm about to tell you about may not even happen, so just keep it within our community for a few weeks. I ask again, please stop reading now if you cant keep it under you hat until its confirmed. A proposal has to be sent to the PIPE admins and the whole idea needs approval - although it looks good because they have done the same thing in other states.

I have been informally approached by PIPE in Tasmania to relocate the hub server into their data center in Hobart. As most of you know, PIPE offer peering points to ISP's in Australia. They are based in Queensland, and currently peer in Qld, NSW and SA. The PIPE peering point in Hobart is yet to come online but it shouldnt be too long now.

So what benefits will we see about having PIPE? If all goes as I expect, we will get free transfer between other ISP users (other than keypoint, which is already free). Which ISP's only PIPE know, but that will be announced at a later date. In other states PIPE also offer free access to news servers and the like, so thats another bonus. All this is yet to be confirmed and is pure speculation at this point. PIPE in queensland also host a DC Hub, and this is where I come into it. By re-locating the hub server onto their premises we will be located in their state of the art data facility, with UPS backup and plugged into 100mb switches. How much bandwidth we get will be PIPE's decision, but let me assure you, 5k/sec downloads are a thing of the past

Think more 50k/sec..or 160k/sec

I also asked if a web server could be included and the tassie PIPE guys liked the idea, so this will also go to PIPE Qld for consideration. This web server would run these forums and the front page - but anach does not have any hardware at this stage it is something we will look into in the future.

So at this stage we are waiting to see what PIPE think about the whole thing. If it goes ahead I will have to purchase a rackmount case like the IPC 4080 and also may require donations of HDD's. It all depends on how you want to use it.

So basically, at this point I's like to get suggestions on what you think if this scenario went ahead. Would you like to see DC or emule? Do you think its a good idea?

Remember at this stage its all just talk until PIPE give us a green light (and they are all really cool people so im hoping

But I think its good news.

-Phil

Stuart · Unread post by **Stuart** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:25 pm

Phil wrote:....Think more 50k/sec..or 160k/sec ....

That is from 'The Big Kahuna' which will probably run the server and client with some serious bandwidth :shock:

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:27 pm

THis is a great idea, though one thing stands out in particular.
How can we get more speed, seeing DC++ is still single source?

The hardware for the Server situation i will discuss with you phil over ICQ

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:29 am

what would be best is if we just get a server on there network, with say 200 gig of hard drive, and a ftp account set up for each of us, we upload something, post it on the forum. everyone downloads at ultra speeds. for free.

that would be sweeeet

Pits · Unread post by **Pits** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:07 am

This would be very beneficial for all the leechers out there. This is where a community feeling is highly needed. If we all want this to work we have to all chip in with something like old hardware, cash donations, knowledge of stuff, setting up stuff, maintaining stuff. The DC protocol in my opinion would still be the best as it has the community feeling unlike emule or shareza. If we get files at 50k a sec, we wouldnt need really need multisourcing now would we? It would all be done in a matter of hours not days and the slot rotation will just be that bit faster. All we need now is hard drives and dvd burners I reckon. Problems with other models of p2p is communication. Like some people post what they have new on here but its only a select few. So a ftp option would be less beneficial thena motd in the hub of the newest pr0n out there or whatever. So if it benefits all us better, we shall use less quota n share stuff more within our community so we all can get double then what the unlimited dsl users would get in theory. So Im in for whatever needs to be done. Community Spirit

YES I FUCKED UP how can anyone on 512/128k UPLOAD at 50k a sec? Multi source dc all ze way.. Mind you if we are on pipe how many users do we expect to connect to? I WANT A COMMUNITY WITH GOOD MULTI SOURCING DAMMIT

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:49 am

I was thinking of a Dual socket 370 Celeron Server if i can find a motherboard. I have most the other components, but either way i need a motherboard.

If anyone has anything they want to sell cheap, let me know.

The forums being on PIPE will certainly save the hassles of my server here being offline and also take away the bandwidth limits i have.
PLus i can then host the downloads on my for the various P2P clients etc.

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:46 pm

yes you did fuck up, i still like my idea, if pipe will offer unlimited data to us netspace users from a server on there network, if 20 of us chuck in 100 bucks each, a $2000 computer would make a seriously good server (with a couple hundreed gig of hdd), everyone who chucked in money gets there own private account, a folder on the server to fill up. and the leechers, well they all have to share say 5 anonymous accounts. or none, 20 of us could get plenty to share. if someone wants in they would either have to make a donation to the kitty (pipe will probably charge us to keep the server on there network so it could be used to pay for that) or they could maybe upload 20 gig of new stuff or something, im sure wed work it out.
i presume someone out there has a good knowledge of linux, as all good ftp servers are run on it, and it is easy to remotly control.

Chage · Unread post by **Chage** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:03 pm

Hate to be the party pooper, but what are you intending to host on this mad leet ftp server?

I suspect one whiff of illicit material, and PIPE will be asking you to collect this FTP server from the datacenter?

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:13 pm

not that it really matters, but its not going to be a ftp server, its going to be a Direct Connect, or emule server. They may be ftp access to upload. Undecided at this point.

Chage · Unread post by **Chage** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:33 am

Ahh k, so its for a webserver DC hub etc. that makes more sense

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:09 am

which will make absolutly zero differance to the speeds we currently get, how awsome. well awsome for anach but noone else

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:55 pm

Kegsta wrote:which will make absolutly zero differance to the speeds we currently get, how awsome. well awsome for anach but noone else

what the fuck? how do you figure that?

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:57 pm

Chage wrote:Ahh k, so its for a webserver DC hub etc. that makes more sense

No. If it goes ahead, it will be a direct connect server with "content" for tassie broadband users.

Anachs machine will be a web server.

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:57 pm

by having the hub on a fast connection it doesnt make the clients fast.
its good for anach cause he wont have to run the web server anymore

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:58 pm

Kegsta wrote:by having the hub on a fast connection it doesnt make the clients fast.
its good for anach cause he wont have to run the web server anymore

Read my last post.

If I can not host content on the box, I will not go ahead with the move, and PIPE misses out on terrabytes of content. There isnt enough benefits to make it worthwhile without content.

Note that from what I've been told, content on the box isnt a problem.

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:26 am

Chage wrote:I suspect one whiff of illicit material, and PIPE will be asking you to collect this FTP server from the datacenter?

Myst · Unread post by **Myst** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:00 pm

Erm, one questions how this "content" will make it's way onto the server in the first place?

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:40 pm

Chage wrote:Hate to be the party pooper, but what are you intending to host on this mad leet ftp server?

I suspect one whiff of illicit material, and PIPE will be asking you to collect this FTP server from the datacenter?

There is a warez ftp server on PIPE in anotehr state. there is also a DC server with warez on it in a different state.

Look, by the feedback im getting it looks like you guys are not comfortable with the idea. Ok thats fine - I thought i would mention it but nothings decided so we can still can the idea.

Keep it as it is then.

Chage · Unread post by **Chage** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:21 pm

Dont get me wrong, I think its a great idea.

all I am saying it once you house stuff at commercial premises, you should be more careful, and make sure you adhere to their AUPs - particularly if they are giving you something for nothing

I'd love to get the website and forums of anach shitslow adsl

and chuck some game patches, nvidia driver etc on a public ftp

Kegsta · Unread post by **Kegsta** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:55 am

thats what OGN is for, it would only be worth it if it had decent content that we'd acctually want

Psycho · Unread post by **Psycho** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:50 pm

Phil, I think we can trust you to make an informed and appropriate decision.

atm, the big problem we have is with upstream bandwidth, imho. Slow P2P uploads and requisite slot limitation make for very frustrating dial-up-style transfers.

I would love to see a locally-hosted free-transfer fast ftp, so we can move stuff around really fast that's in demand.

I'm talking about the uberhuge Matrix and Half-life-ish trailery, of course. What are you guys thinking of?

Xeon · Unread post by **Xeon** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:19 pm

Phil wrote:How much bandwidth we get will be PIPE's decision, but let me assure you, 5k/sec downloads are a thing of the past Think more 50k/sec..or 160k/sec

ok, ok let me get this straight...

By connecting to PIPE, what we get is:
- A dedicated Webserver (maybe ftp)
- Access to free data from ISP's other than Netspace and Keypoint
- Acess to free data in differnet states? (not sure about this one)

But i dont see how WE get more speed, because we are limited (on DC) to the upload speed of the other user..

The only way WE can get more speed is if Netspace Up's EVERYONES Upload cap on free transfers

The only way we can get the SPEED benifits off the PIPE, is dling off the dedicated server, (hobart or other states). Not on P2P, because u would be dling off the

Also, how would we get the data onto the server?, we would have to upload the file, SLOWLY...

Maybe a mail-in system, you send in the files on DVD/CD and you get a certian amount of DL on the dedicated server... (Eg, send in a 700mb movie, you get 1.4g DL off the dedicated server), then they send it back..

or you take a HDD in?

i am pretty confused, but is it means free data off other isp's / states, it has to be a GOOD thing..

as for emule or DC, how about both?

Psycho · Unread post by **Psycho** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:57 pm

Let's be honest here.

The vast majority of traffic in a P2P network is very large unique files, usually coming from a single source and spreading through the network.

The major problem with the current structure is the speed at which a single file can be dissemenated to all users of the network. I won't go into the issues of DC vs edonkey vs kazaa, as we're all aware of them.

The problem is upstream bandwidth. It takes a long time to transmit a large file at 12k (assuming full usage, which it most often is not) and then the same time again to propagate, then again, and so on.

Having a large central source would allow the files to propagate much much faster. 60k compared to 12k (* assumes 512kbit connection)

Yes, you woudl not run the entire network off it, as that would be silly and defeat the purpose of a P2P network.

The main benefit would be upping latest hotly-demanded files, to seed the network as fast as possible in the early stages and increase propagation speed to the first couple of clients.

Once the file is being shared popularly P2P, the central seed is no longer required and can be deleted for the next 'hot item'.

All IMHO of course, feel free to debunk.

Xeon · Unread post by **Xeon** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:32 am

thats what i was thinking, it is a very good idea, getting the High Demand files onto a server, where they can be dled @ high speeds, the problem would be decideding when to delete the files, maybe it stays on for 2 weeks then gets deleted

also, how would u get it onto there?, FTP sounds the most viable option if you ask me

Phil · Unread post by **Phil** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:10 pm

we will be moving to PIPE in august.

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:19 pm

*thinks phil is already on the pipe*

Porkster · Unread post by **Porkster** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:22 am

Anach wrote:*thinks phil is already on the pipe*

He might be. As far as the plan goes, it's only Keypoint that might be on the Pipe and that is at Christmas(Dec). Being able to peer to Keypoint isn't the same as PIPE'ing to other ISP's, if they join the Pipe at all, which is very unlikely(iiNet is the only one). In other terms it's more or less the same features user have now, but you might be able to host a file server at the router point. Netspace users will not be able to PIPE to iiNet users unless they reuse the data from Keypoint(mainly business users, sot here wont be much shared) customers. Netspace is currently not scheduled for Pipe.

I wouldn't be handing money over untill it's all solid info that Netspace Sector is going Tas PIPE.

(I couldn't help correcting this info. hehehe. next month, 17th I'll be on Unlimited, no restriction ISP... OzForces seems the best, their community is unreal. Lithoptix.com.au seems good for price and small contracts. )

.

P2P in Tasmania..the future?

Re: P2P in Tasmania..the future?

Re: P2P in Tasmania..the future?